Speaker My early days as an actor, of course, were as most young people, they start in high school. I did a Shakespeare play. I did A Midsummer Night’s Dream in 10th grade.
Speaker And I enjoyed that so much that I really actually thought that becoming an actor at that point was to just seemed like a natural choice for me because I enjoy the language so much. And I always had enjoyed playing with my last name being grammar. I’ve been sort of relegated to to the position of being the expert on speech as a as a young man, the fourth, fifth, sixth grade. So but because of peer pressure and I thought I should honor the name with knowledge. And so I became quite involved with expression, speech, clarity of thought, precision of expression, things like that.
Speaker And it just seemed natural.
Speaker I like I fell into a world of classical theater and I was told sometime during that period of my life that the best schools in the world were the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, Juilliard and Carnegie Tech.
Speaker And so I applied to those schools and I was accepted at Juilliard. And it just seemed natural that I that I should go with.
Speaker Do you remember the audition process? Maybe you will remember.
Speaker Oh, yes.
Speaker Well, the audition process, I I’m having been kind of a neophyte, I guess I had been told in my in my limited acting class classes that I’d taken at my high school that warming up or relaxing meant, you know, taking off your belt or slipping off your shoes, stretching a little bit and you, you know, going got to loose clothing. So I went to the audition at at the school.
Speaker I was 17 at the time. I had hair down the middle of my back. I was white from surfing all the time. And I had a very good tan because I lived in Fort Lauderdale. And I remember it was Franklin Seale’s that that met me at the door. He’s no longer with us, but he was a wonderful man. And he said, well, why don’t you just relax a bit, which was the key word for me.
Speaker So that meant well then I’ll just kick off my shoes and take off my belt, my shirt, my jacket. So when he said, OK, they’re ready for you. I went down in my stocking feet and my t shirt.
Speaker And stepped down that. Perilous inclined toward that big thrust stage there on the third floor and looked up into the darkness. I saw, you know, silhouetted figures that had voices. This is someone’s. What are you going to do for us, Mr. Graham? I said I’ll be doing Nick Bottom from Midsummer Night’s Dream. And Willy Loman, my modern piece from Death of a Salesman. I heard them giggle a little bit. I thought, oh, boy, this is going to go well.
Speaker I did. Then I did the pieces and the. Hey, John Houseman asked me from the shadows, one of the shadows spoke to me after I was done, he said. Mr Grammer, do you intend to make acting your career? This is the stupidest question I’ve ever heard in my life. Well, of course, I can tell you I flew up here from Fort Lauderdale, didn’t I? I said thank you. And I left.
Speaker And I was I was putting on my shoes on. Margot Harley came into the dressing room and. Asked me about my application on my application, I had written some kind of a smart assed answer about how do you intend to pay for it?
Speaker And I had written something like my my family has declined the privilege of financing my education. Something like that. She said. What exactly does that mean? I said, it means I have no money.
Speaker And she said, But that’s not a problem. She said, You have any questions? I said, Yeah. How do I do? And she said. That it was a good audition and then a couple weeks later, I heard that I’d been accepted and the faculty at my high school was was very excited because, frankly, I really hadn’t grasped what an extraordinary accomplishment it was to even be accepted.
Speaker And I did receive a full scholarship and it was.
Speaker It was quite an honor, really.
Speaker And what was it like when you first came in? I mean, you obviously had not lived in New York City. You had not, you know, sort of deal.
Speaker Right. Well, you live happily. I had.
Speaker I had been raised in New Jersey when I was a younger man from the years like five to twelve. I had lived just outside New York. And so I spent some time here enough to kind of know my way around. I knew where Lincoln Center was, for instance.
Speaker I yes, I used to go to the young people’s concerts that Leonard Bernstein would give, and I used to go to the theater a little bit.
Speaker So it wasn’t totally untrue. I mean, New York.
Speaker But when I arrived, I remembered having a kind of sinking feeling because I thought, I can’t get out. I won’t be able to escape because I didn’t have any money and I was poor. And I won’t be able to surf again for a long time. And I really loved the ocean and it was a big part of my life. And so I there was a kind of excited despair about being stuck here that first fall and fall for 73.
Speaker But I was. Very excited once we started to go to class and I was a bit intimidated by the.
Speaker Stature. The people with which we were working. Edith Skinner. I mean, once you once you started to find out about who these people were. And Liz Smith and Robert Williams and Peter Lefevre. These people to me were just extraordinary. And I felt very, very fortunate. And a little overwhelmed by them.
Speaker And then I did what I guess most young theater students do is we surrender our identity basically to them, at which point we all start talking exactly the same way.
Speaker We all started walking around the halls saying, good morning. How are you? Very well, how are you?
Speaker And somewhere during the course of my education there, I started to think, wait a minute, we all we all sound alike. I thought, that’s probably not really good for you in terms of a career. You asked me another question.
Speaker I mean, it’s very true. A lot. I mean, certainly.
Speaker That’s the big catch 22 topic of Juliar amongst people now and people from the past go in. With some uniqueness that got you out of the fifteen hundred people or two thousand people down to the 20. And then they take the very thing that they like.
Speaker Yeah, the spark, right. Yeah. And I think that’s I think it’s necessary that they do that.
Speaker Robert Williams recorded our little speech, something about the in the middle of the room, there was a red rug. And I remember if he played it for us. We all recorded it, destroyed the end of the first year and.
Speaker I listened and then he played for us. Recordings of our auditions. And without exception, I thought everybody was so much more interesting in their auditions. And so I asked Robert, I said, you know what’s going on here?
Speaker It’s like you’ve stripped us of of of the necessary fire. The thing that made us interesting. The thing that got us in here probably.
Speaker And he said, oh, well, that’s just what we do. The only way these things are done. No, no, no. You won’t have to worry about this after next year. OK. All right.
Speaker Of course, I didn’t make it through the next year. I mean, I, I finished the following year, but he he said that once you get to the third and fourth year, then you get to re re invent or rediscover that part of you that that will fuel a career possibly.
Speaker But what they were doing and I do believe this is true and I think it really did help me in my in my career was they gave us tools that we could use to approach any kind of role and they gave us a physical. Acumen. Basically a skill that would serve us in performing in any kind of medium and. It was up to us to assimilate that.
Speaker In accordance with our own individuality, and then use it to express what would hopefully become our unique contribution to the world of theater, the world of television, film, whatever, to entertain, whatever.
Speaker And who are the people in your. I mean, you you were you were in quite a kind of saucy, saucy group.
Speaker Well, we were always saucy. I think that’s a that’s something that is characteristic of most theater types. I don’t know that they somehow have landed in a sauciness that is pervasive in their society. And of course, we all landed in the same room at the same time. And so was even more fun.
Speaker We.
Speaker By virtue of what you were doing there in the first years, an acting school, you explore your body.
Speaker You explore the space, you explore your voice.
Speaker So many of these things that end up being maybe self-indulgent, but they’re also really kind of sexual.
Speaker And then what happens is the associations you with you form as a result of this training.
Speaker Everybody gets kind of friendly. The classes mixed about whether, like the actors and the dancers did seem to find this journey very fast, fascinating on it.
Speaker Of couples thing. They paired off quite a bit. But I guess that’s just part of being young to.
Speaker But, you know, there are relationships, it seems to me, to get warm because you really are, you know, you know, getting yourself, so to speak, of all these people day after day and, you know, going into shows and productions with them or sharing roles with them.
Speaker I think that I saw it with you. And Robin Williams shared a role.
Speaker Oh, yes, we both played. I played the first act of Dr. Stockman, an enemy of the people. And he did the second act.
Speaker The second half. Yeah. So I was directed by John Stick’s. I remember that.
Speaker A rewarding experience for both of us.
Speaker That’s where actually we started calling each other doctor that I think it has stuck to this day when every doctor, doctor, doctor, which facilities Robin and I used to eat popcorn together every night pretty much. We were both extremely poor. I would never live without mustard for some reason. I was had at least a quality jar of mustard in my refrigerator. If I had nothing else and popcorn that saved the day.
Speaker Robinson, actually.
Speaker Always. I didn’t know Chris so well, Chris came in.
Speaker Chris came in our second year, if I remember. Rightly so.
Speaker So we didn’t really associate all that much, I could just kind of knew him. I got to know Chris a little bit better, you know, years later.
Speaker From his family background is suitable to offer Robert.
Speaker Yes, well, he was. He was perhaps of the privileged. Yes.
Speaker And what about John tells I mean, once you got there, what was your. Well, as you sort of said, did you go to history? Was that interesting?
Speaker I discovered John Houseman’s theatrical history by virtue of, you know, people telling me when I got to school. And I’ve I’ve learned more, you know, years later, frankly, about him. My personal experience with John was the first day of school. They wield him out and he said a few words. What’s on their arm again?
Speaker And said, I saw him once in the elevator. And he was very imposing and not particularly warm. And I thought, well, jeez, I said hello.
Speaker To the extent of it, John and I, I saw John years later in San Diego when I was doing some Shakespeare there actually at the old Globe Theater. He came and visited and we all chat, chatted a bit, and it was quite, quite lovely. It was once you were out of the school, actually, that you felt as though you were then on an equal, more equal footing. Like, all that stuff had gone by and it wasn’t it wasn’t anything except an experience of some distant past that really had nothing to do with you as a person. It’s an odd feeling being a student there at first was.
Speaker I know I myself felt very isolated there, and I was alone in the most profound way. But maybe that’s what my journey was.
Speaker Did you? Did you have very interesting acting, acting classes?
Speaker I mean, were you involved with Marijan, with Michael?
Speaker Well, I so this was there when I was there and she did our poetry class.
Speaker One day, Margaret Free, that was there as well. Did text classes with examine texts. And we would read small, small stories aloud. Those were very helpful. Marion was wonderful. Me too. You know, this is very confusing and very encouraging, always and very informative about passion and investing passion in the language. And that that class I was found really worthwhile acting wise. I had Michael Howard for our first year of acting, who has his own studio now in town somewhere. And his he I recall I took with me a few things that I still cling to in theory from Michael.
Speaker One was, you have to learn how to be private in public. And you must learn to love the kiss of eyes. And those those two things I took with me from Steven Aaron. I took the lesson that very often the problem an actor is having in a scene is the same problem that the character is having. And that scene that became enormously helpful to me the second year when we actually got in to what was supposed to be like a scene class, an acting class, I was in Jean Lesser’s class and Jean and I didn’t hit it off so well.
Speaker I don’t know why. I’m sure I’m sure it was nothing personal on his level. I mean, I just received it as being personal. I didn’t like him and that I didn’t think he liked me. So, you know, this is the way the world goes. And I became very unproductive. I didn’t want to go to his class. I think I did three scenes and the whole whole year. In fact, I’m sure I did. Yes, it was Streetcar Named Desire with Harriet Harris. We did the Mitch and Blanch scene.
Speaker And then I did Romeo and Juliet with Diane Banora. And then I did. Who’s afraid of Virginia Woolf? With Carla Sharansky and Lee McCloskey?
Speaker And I was about it and I don’t know, I think I just got a little disenchanted because of the major impact of the second year I was in that class.
Speaker Well, there’s a lot, of course, you know, there’s this sort of early jokes in Group one. I mean, the joke is the right word with husbands was they’d like to you that. You’re right. I mean, it’s like. Was that the Kingsfield speech or was that the Giuliani speech or did they become one later? But I mean, this sort of sends a blow to your left. Look, you’re right. How long you will be gone? I mean, like a lot of people have talked, especially in, like the first say, you know, six years, a little less, you know, harsh. But, you know, Super 16 year.
Speaker Yeah. The attrition rate was pretty, pretty scary. It was. It was it was pretty daunting. I remember the look to your left, look to your right speech. But I remember everyone being quite aware that just about every three months or so, from the first moment you get there, you will be appraised, evaluated and. Disinvited, as I like to call it.
Speaker And did you. Did you trust them? Do you. Did you feel like I’m an 18 year old kid? What they say is true. Did you sit in those critiques and just feel sort of brutalise like the 30 year after that I’m following now sort of total self-loathing, really?
Speaker Gosh, you know, I.
Speaker I don’t know what it was about. The experience of being evaluated, that was so.
Speaker I suppose if it was unpleasant on a certain level, but then I have an arrogance about me that took everything with a grain of salt. I guess maybe it was a confidence. Maybe it was a sense that I was doing something I knew I had to do and that whether or not they accepted me or continued to accept me or praised me or reviled me, it didn’t matter.
Speaker I was going to persevere. In this chosen world.
Speaker And so I just tried to glean from from the people at Juilliard the best of what they could give me.
Speaker And. Really kind of just forget the stuff that didn’t help.
Speaker That really is an incredible jump in somebody.
Speaker I mean, a lot of people have gone. I have been quite tormented by the. And it is it’s an incredible sense.
Speaker I remember just being really fond of them and even though that even the day when they were gone, I got called up into the big room to be told that I wasn’t coming back.
Speaker Liz Smith was there and the voice teacher, a five who would mask class to us, whom I adored, Peer. He was amazing. Jean Loesser was there. And I think Steve and I sat there and they said, you know, Carlos, we love you. I think you’re a great guy. It’s just not working out OK. Yeah, right. OK, well, we’ll do something else. Which. You know, just still pursue it, but not be here at Juilliard. Then I had my last meeting with John Houseman, who told me read the great novels.
Speaker OK. Sounds like a good idea. And that was that was the last word I got from them.
Speaker But years later, as I’ve been, like, doing a show off Broadway or even on Broadway. Robert Williams would always show up. With me some evening after a performance, I’d be sneaking out the back door and there would be Robert saying, well done, well done.
Speaker You know, I mean, there was always a great sense of.
Speaker I guess I think gratitude from either having learned what I did from those people and but also just real fondness. I still remain very fond of all the people I mentioning. And in retrospect, I you even Father Gene. Let’s hear.
Speaker What? Why did you feel that it wasn’t working? I mean, were you just as ready to go?
Speaker Well, I did. I did know that I wasn’t getting acting class, and that’s why I was there for.
Speaker It just wasn’t happening. So, you know, it made sense. John Stick’s told me that I saw him at a party a year later. He said if you’d asked to stay, probably would have. I thought it never occurred to me to ask to stay. They said it’s time to go on. I said, OK, I’ll see you later. Sighs I guess I. I guess I was really ready to kind of move along.
Speaker And perhaps also at that time, with the numbers doing the same thing, it became less in a way you could say the cuts were harsher. Now one person goes to people and it’s like. I told someone, fill in every now.
Speaker I know that we were quite used to lead losing people.
Speaker Yeah, I mean, I think this class was cut in half by the end of the first year. From what I remember, I think we started out at 35. Well, okay. We were 30, finally went to 24, I think, by the end of the first year. So that was pretty alarming. I was a third of us at least. And, you know, so that’s you know, it was kind of OK. They wait us out.
Speaker And what was it that you love so much about? About pure love. I actually went to France and interviewed Peter. It’s really now 92. Wow. Credible, like many mass demonstrations.
Speaker Well, it was his spirit that most attracted me to to him. Peire.
Speaker He had the.
Speaker The light, I guess, the luminescence of a person that had lived a great deal. I did hear stories, find out that he was the voice of the free French and during the war and then and then, of course, it resonated more for me because I’d been very good friends with my. My, my my best friend’s father’s was I was a spy, an American spy in France during the German occupation, during the war, and he had told me stories of Joseph Stalin and he shows up along who were resistance people that also worked with PR left. So I had a sense of. Such I such a sense of respect for him, for what I knew as his contribution to the world was as a patriot of its own country, but also due to the idea of liberty and freedom, that he fought for that. And. His information that he imparted to us was based upon a person that had such a foundation in life and life, force and energy, and I guess that just was something I just was attracted to. And so his information seemed very more profound, I guess less. I guess sometimes I thought there was this silliness about us all standing around leotards and taking ourselves extremely seriously.
Speaker I don’t know.
Speaker But yeah, I seem to think you don’t have to have that kind of ignition in him that made you want to listen to start up your engine. And so that got me. He remains one of the great highlights from my experience there.
Speaker And we were talking before about some of those things that you can take with you. What this classical training really adds up, you know, how it ends up affecting a career in some way, whether I mean, really the two years after training, the third year, just really your third or fourth year doing shows.
Speaker Right. So in a sense, you got all the training that I got the foundation.
Speaker I’ve always thought I got the foundation that I was left up to me to assimilate it in whatever way I possibly could.
Speaker And I found that through other droughty years, I would assimilate another piece of it and then realized, oh, I finally got that, the vocal production. I didn’t I didn’t really find my voice until.
Speaker It was it was five, four, five years later when I was doing actually Macbeth at Lincoln Center and Philip Angoulême had blown out his voice after the first night of performance and some second performance in the middle of the man at the intermission of the matinee.
Speaker The manager came and knocked on my door and said, Are you up on the lines?
Speaker We need you to go on as Macbeth? And I said, well, particularly upon the second act. But I know a couple of the speeches and I’ll use a book for the rest of it. And I started to strain my voice. The first three performances of that. I thought, boy, this is really knocking me out.
Speaker And.
Speaker So I think it was a Saturday matinee performance of that week. I stood on the stage and I thought I got to relax and just support my voice. And then finally, all the stuff we did lying on the floor, all those all the breath things we had done previously, all the vocal production exercises we had done finally came into play and it all hit me.
Speaker And that’s when my voice basically dropped six notes. And I was able to sustain a performance for the next six weeks in that room.
Speaker And then we were talking also about, you know, you go into something like like the work that you’ve done on television and that, you know, a line of things from classical theater and you’re working with other classical actors.
Speaker The value that I think the training has brought to, in my own case, to the sitcom Frasier especially is. The the comfort with language that we gain as a result of the education we got. David Hyde Pierce also went to school, not Julia. He was in the acting company for a while.
Speaker So he has the same kind of tradition. John Mahoney has a theater tradition from Chicago.
Speaker There’s a sense of imbuing the words with a bit with a size that makes them sort of resonate with importance, I guess. And that serve serves that format really well.
Speaker The sitcom format, because it’s slightly elevated in style. And if there’s anything you learn at Juilliard, it’s to elevate your style.
Speaker And Frazier is certainly I mean, if he could have gone to Juilliard, he would have been very happy. But there is something about being able to speak well that simply reeks of of education.
Speaker It’s you just assume a person is educated who speaks well. And I think it’s a great lesson for us in terms of that character.
Speaker Certainly my training at Juilliard has fleshed him out considerably.
Speaker Do you think that actors that get out of. Juilliard.
Speaker Now are in a whole. Different world than than you were in. I mean, do you think or do you think the world the difficulty of the actor in Germany, just desserts is just a constant? I mean, I feel like the theater has really changed. Maybe the world that.
Speaker John Houseman, I mean, when you were there, were you buying into the mission? Thinking, I want to go into the acting company and this is going to be interesting, this regional theater in America, I didn’t have a chance to think that way.
Speaker I wasn’t around long enough to start thinking that way.
Speaker I think I really just I mean, you know what? Maybe it’s egocentric. I really just wanted to be a good actor. It’s all I ever wanted to be. I didn’t have a mission. I did want to become a great Shakespearean actor. I did have that sensibility because I think I realized that that’s where the greatest language, the greatest plays ever written were there. I mean, this guy is the one who did it. There’s some very good plays have been written since, but there aren’t any as good. I mean, frankly, there probably aren’t any as good. I mean, and even the even the worst Shakespeare play is probably better, more complex, more challenging than almost any other play. So that was my main thrust and that’s what I found most fascinating, which is why, you know, it’s drawn back to what I wanted to do Macbeth again. And you come here and do it this year and try to keep keep my dream intact.
Speaker Certainly, Frazier was not on the list.
Speaker Frazier was presented to me during my lifetime as an actor, and it became, of course, a great, great path, but it wasn’t what I had in mind.
Speaker But then there’s sort of catch 22 of the film business or the television business, is that these is the things that you’ve got to have in mind for you, all sorts of opportunities. It’s great. I mean, do you think that there’s a lot? Do you think that when you leave school today that it’s that it’s there, let’s improve road?
Speaker I mean, you know, if you look back and everybody went to Juilliard, doesn’t matter if you left or or or stayed or went for years.
Speaker I mean, there’s only a few people out of my class that that that really can sustain working.
Speaker I think that’s. I think it’s just a condition of the business itself.
Speaker I don’t know if it’s any easier for a Juilliard student leaving the school now than it was 20 years ago.
Speaker I don’t think it is. I think it can be. I mean, I think it’s an impossibly difficult profession to have a successful career in. It is.
Speaker For one thing, the you know, the great actors, the people that we fall in love with when we’re children that inspire us to become actors.
Speaker Make it look easy. So the assumption that runs through the minds of almost every beginning actor is that, oh, I can do that.
Speaker And, you know, we attract so many people. With, let’s say, modest gifts to this career, to this to this to this business, because it. The great ones make it look like they’re doing nothing.
Speaker And of course, they’re doing everything and they’re working very hard. But it eventually does. I guess it was Gilgo to said it takes 17 years for a person to actually become an actor. And I think that’s probably true. So what do you have in arm in our world? What people, you know, lump all these personalities as actors? The film world, for instance, is not people with a great many actors. It is people with personalities. And there are some actors within the profession. But. I don’t know what the point I’m even trying to make, except that it’s it’s a very difficult life no matter when you enter it. If you have a passion and. And some talent and some tenacity. And some luck, it may stand a chance.
Speaker Yeah, I mean, we learned that from him. I mean, you know, you learn to those posture things that, you know, you learn by just.
Speaker By osmosis, I guess he didn’t really talk about it, it just showed you. And so you turn. You know what, an angle of interest and effect as a result of what your body says as well? They made us aware of our bodies, I guess, in a way that, you know, is very important, become as expressive as you can.
Speaker And then, of course, soccer is not a soccer, it does not teach me. I missed her for some reason I never had on Sokolow there. I don’t know why Jane Kosminsky was my movement teacher. And Jane was great. And she taught us a couple of numbers from, you know, different things. And we as the Red Cross, the floor and stuff.
Speaker But the first experience going by the very getting experience with my first week in New York for preparing for Juilliard. They send us to Capezio, right.
Speaker To get something called a dance belt. And I mean, it’s just this kid from Fort Lauderdale had never worn underwear. You know, I was a surfer. I was in the water all the time. And the girl behind the car.
Speaker I’ll also need a dance belt. I thought you give, like, something that was made out of canvas. You know, this is going, like, tighter on my waist. She pulls out this little thing.
Speaker What the hell do you do with that? Just you put it on your.
Speaker I thought, my God, that’s that’s barbaric, and I was prepared for the very first class at Juliar and I steitz slipped into this thing, I thought I was putting a girdle on. And then the things that did to my anatomy were just diabolical.
Speaker I decided I was not going to wear a dance belt after that. I wore it one day, so I spent the next two years. Pretty much flopping around during dance class.
Speaker Do you think that there’s, you know, when you’re at Juilliard, do you think that there’s or as an actor now that there is?
Speaker Something that can be taught that goes from this technique to this artistry. I mean, can you really go to a school and. Pick up what that is or you have to come in with what?
Speaker I think it’s essential that you walk in with some talent and that you receive the training. And hopefully overcome it.
Speaker It’s those who don’t overcome it, actually, it’s probably the right thing.
Speaker I mean, not some in some weird way, this may be the right foundry for acting talent because. Yes, and you can get all this information about technique and you can learn old language and you can learn, oh, how to break down a text.
Speaker But without that unique thing, the necessary fire or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker All of this stuff will eventually not be enough to give you a career. It’ll give you. Maybe in retrospect, a greater ability to appreciate great work. So I don’t think it should be a bitter experience for anybody that has had the good fortune to go to Juilliard. But to know not everybody will make it, even if you’ve finished the school. But I think it’s an extraordinary education and it’s it forces a person to examine themselves on so many different levels and you might get in any kind of other higher education situation. I mean, you’re asked to examine.
Speaker You know, the great works in other schools, perhaps, and or the theories of whatever your particular interest might be. But at Juilliard, you are pretty much forced to deal with you to do some discovery on yourself. That is invaluable. I think whether or not you become a great actor.
Speaker I don’t know what level did you find it quite painful. You said quite nicely.
Speaker Yeah, it was. Yeah. You know, it’s good. It was it was very it was very painful sometimes. Yeah. I mean, it got a little. I mean, certainly I got angry a few times. There was a particular exercise we’re doing the first two first year where I began to laugh. And Michael Hearts. Why are you laughing? Why are you laughing? Cause it was funny. He said, that’s your problem.
Speaker And you always feel these things with a joke, with a laugh. You know, you walk away from things, unthink things that are uncomfortable. Yeah. So, you know, maybe he’s right.
Speaker And discovering those things are important. I’m still working on that.
Speaker It’s endless.
Speaker Yeah, yeah, it really is. But, you know, it’s it’s a very exciting. It’s a very exciting. Education to undergo it, really as it is, it’s extraordinary. And I think it has value whether or not you stay in the business.
Speaker Leontyne Price, the ultimate diva, was here the other day, said she was having a love affair with herself and her relationship.
Speaker Well, the view is really.
Speaker Yes, right. Oh, I know. You know, she’s got it all, hasn’t she?
Speaker It doesn’t mean much to people. Look at Juilliard does you get discussed. You run into people and it’s like, wow.
Speaker Oh, most people most people disparage it. You and then I. Oh, you Juilliard actress. But frankly, I’m very proud of it. But you have to have gone to Juilliard. I’m extremely proud of it.
Speaker And I know. It helped me enormously. My experience there. Is largely responsible for.
Speaker The professional posture that I present, I I did get that from Juilliard.
Speaker And do you think that it’s a yes?
Speaker What is that? That conservatory? What does that mean? That’s hanging in the air. That sort of thing that makes people say to you instead of to me, it just is just what came out of it or is it some?
Speaker Well, it’s mostly because it has two eyes in it. That was extraordinary to you. I, I, I. What is it about it? I don’t know. I guess there’s a kind of.
Speaker Hubris that accompanies. Someone who knows they are very well educated. It’s not that they’re trying to really. Hold their heads or.
Speaker Pretend that they are somehow. It’s it’s it’s a confusing sentence. It’s escaping me when I’m trying to say it’s basically people from Juilliard have earned the right to think they’re pretty impressive because they survived what is is a pretty brutal experience.
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